DARPA Urban Challenge Forum

DARPA Discussion Forum Closed

John Wiseman — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:14:00 PST

It looks like DARPA deactivated the Grand Challenge discussion forum a while back, hence the lack of new posts in the feed. I'll keep the feed URL going for a bit, but it too will eventually disappear.

Until next time,
John Wiseman

Will there be another Grand Challenge?

LeenSTL — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:14:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Miscellaneous:Will there be another Grand Challenge?

I saw some of that on the 2004 forum which was closed when the 2005 event kicked off. Nothing ever happened with it, probably due to the lack of funds. The 2004 forum might still be around in an archive.

There was also an attempt to do Pikes Peak, the Axion team actually did the entire 14 mile course in a demo run. That race was postponed for a year then abandoned.

Next Level Challenge

LeenSTL — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:06:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Next Level Challenge

Having entertainment commentators with technical backgrounds during the
event was fine and it worked, there wasn't anything like that in the
previous challenges.

Remote UGVs in the field first?

zonyl — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:05:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Technology:Remote UGVs in the field first?

So why exactly arent we doing remote UGV ground vehicles already? Can we not remote control a semi carrying supplies in Iraq from Utah? I would think this would be the first step already taken towards full autonomous operation.

Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

Tyler Folsom — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:04:00 GMT

Posted by: Tyler Folsom to Technology:Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

Maurice is right. The price is coming down and the future is not distant -- maybe three years. A major manufacturer of automotive sensors plans to drop their price from about $100,000 to $500 and put it in main-stream cars. I am looking to produce an autonomous vehicle for a total price of $10,000. See the story "Open-Source Warfare" in the November IEEE Spectrum about how the Internet helps Iraqi terrorists stay ahead of the US military. The same thing will happen with autonomous vehicles.

Torrent for the webcast

mailinator711 — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:26:00 GMT

Posted by: mailinator711 to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

Well I got it to work flawlessly after downloading a separate player and codec pack from free-codecs. I just installed Vista a week ago. I think VLC is using WMV11 codecs from the OS and the perhaps Vista DRM stops playback. Awesomeness.

Thanks zonyl for everything. You've gone above and beyond.

Will there be another Grand Challenge?

zonyl — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:56:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Miscellaneous:Will there be another Grand Challenge?

I seem to remember some discussion after the last challenge claiming that there was a commercial entity interested in doing their own automated vehicle competition for "entertainment" and prize money.

Anyone remember who / what that was?

[Edited on 11/6/2007]

Next Level Challenge

zonyl — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:51:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Next Level Challenge

Dr. Tether was claiming in his speech that the intent was to foster creativity and innovation in the technology. He also noted that DARPA was not going to pursue this technology beyond what it does for the events.

Im not a social econ / poly sci major, but putting on a better show would certainly not hurt the event or its claimed objective. Besides, I thought Jamie and Grant are entertainers, not military analysts.

Torrent for the webcast

zonyl — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:44:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

Thats odd. It plays and seeks fine for me in Mplayer (linux). I dont know much about how windows deals with media nowadays.

$ mplayer DARPA.Urban.Challenge.Final.Event.avi

Playing DARPA.Urban.Challenge.Final.Event.avi.
ASF file format detected.
VIDEO: [WMV1] 320x240 24bpp 15.000 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s)
Clip info:
name: DARPA Urban Challenge
author: DARPA
copyright: 2007
comments: For more information about the DARPA Urban Challenge, please visit www.GrandChallenge.org
xscreensaver_disable: Could not find XScreenSaver window.
GNOME screensaver disabled
========================================= =================================
Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family
Selected video codec: [ffwmv1] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg M$ WMV1/WMV7)
========================================= =================================
========================================= =================================
Forced audio codec: mad
Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders
AUDIO: 8000 Hz, 1 ch, s16le, 8.0 kbit/6.25% (ratio: 1000->16000)
Selected audio codec: [ffwmav2] afm: ffmpeg (DivX audio v2 (FFmpeg))
========================================= =================================
AO: [alsa] 48000Hz 1ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
Starting playback...

changing the rules mid event?

zonyl — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:39:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

Joe, I have to ask. Do you feel that any of the teams that were not selected for the final race would have come close to beating the three finalists? If not, then what more did you expect?

Torrent for the webcast

RetypePassword — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:58:00 GMT

Posted by: RetypePassword to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

Yeah; rename it .wmv and play it in Windows Media Player... It won't play in VLC. I had to do that for it to work on mac and windows. For linux, just playing it with mplayer will work. Seeking doesn't work no matter what, it seems.

Next Level Challenge

LeenSTL — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:48:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Next Level Challenge

DARPA selects the requirements based on what they think the military could realistically use, not on the perceived entertainment value of the event.

Will there be another Grand Challenge?

LeenSTL — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:44:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Miscellaneous:Will there be another Grand Challenge?

Look for the next competition on the moon, but it isn't being sponsored by DARPA.

changing the rules mid event?

LeenSTL — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:39:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

Wait a sec Joe, you're contradicting yourself, you said "no sour grapes". Your wife's team didn't make the cut, get over it.

Torrent for the webcast

mailinator711 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:47:00 GMT

Posted by: mailinator711 to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

First, thanks to zonyl for recording and sharing the video.

Second, does anyone know how to play the video? I can get a video feed on VLC, with no seeking capabilities. But, the audio is choppy and incoherent... Can someone tell me how to get the video to play?

Will there be another Grand Challenge?

Robo_Mallard — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:23:00 GMT

Posted by: Robo_Mallard to Miscellaneous:Will there be another Grand Challenge?

Will there be another Grand Challenge or is 2007's the last one DARPA will hold? If it isn't the last one, when is the next one planned, what will the challenge be, what will the prizes be, and where will it be held?

As for the next challenge, how about DARPA taking it up a notch and giving the autonomous vehicles a realistic "hot" combat scenario. Roadside explosions from IEDs blowing up a convoy lead vehicle (or simulated one and not the contestant vehicles), hostiles trying to highjack them, hostiles trying to ram them with trucks, being shot at by hostiles, and so forth.

Torrent for the webcast

RetypePassword — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:59:00 GMT

Posted by: RetypePassword to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

Thanks again, zonyl. I've finished downloading it --- along with a bunch of other people. XD. 31 new seeds in less than five minutes. Anyhow, would you care to tell me how you got the stream dumped to a file, pray tell?

[Edited on 11/6/2007]

Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

zonyl — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:11:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Technology:Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

Posted by: AKCline

Firstly, I am hoping someone can explain to me how robot
cars will save lives in military situations. I understand the arguments about
reducing traffic fatalities in civilian situations but I cannot understand the
claim regarding military lives.
------------

From what I understand from friends overseas in Iraq, most of our soldiers that are kidnapped / killed are from lightly armored convoys (we dont run tanks and apache's along side our spare parts / food shipments). A majority of these deaths involve soldiers driving in vehicles.

DARPA is trying to jump-start technology that reduces the number of humans required to drive vehicles in dangerous situations. If a roadside bomb detonates a robot vehicle carrying medicine we are out some money, not a human life.

In the convoys that absolutely require humans, autonomous cars can "lead" the group and take the roadside bomb blast ahead of everyone else.

[Edited on 11/6/2007]

Torrent for the webcast

Pascal — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:51:00 GMT

Posted by: Pascal to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

Thanks a lot Zonyl. I'm downloading it.

Pascal

Torrent for the webcast

quux — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 03:13:00 GMT

Posted by: quux to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

Awesome! Thanks!

changing the rules mid event?

honest joe — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:35:00 GMT

Posted by: honest joe to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

exactly. almost good enough, all of the teams fielded vehicles that were almost good enough, it is called research and development. non of the vehicles will ever go into production as is, each is or was a prototype, more reasearch is needed more development required. that was the point of the exercise as i read it, to stimulate the reaserch and development of uav.

as my wife says it, "there were some scary vehicles out there, our did good but with glitches even if we completed all the courses"

if the point was to stimulate development and reasearch why change the rules? this is only going to make teams / research facilities feel that entering is pointless. so dont enter

will that feeling provide the best equipment for armed forces around the world in the next ten years? the timescale for research to full deployment of any concept is what? at the end of compotition? i am not sure on that!

this is not a game i totaly agree

this is serious stuff millions of lives and dollers are at stake
its not a game were its your ball so its your rules
try changing the rules at half time in a fifa match!
it will lead to confusion and resentment. and that is what has happened here.

Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

maurice — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:02:00 GMT

Posted by: maurice to Technology:Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

changing the rules mid event?

Score5150 — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:24:00 GMT

Posted by: Score5150 to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

I have to agree with LeenSTL this was not a game of horseshoes, having participated today for more then seven hours with the bots as a traffic vehicle driver you get a real taste of the what ifs when you are face to face with a vehicle like Terramax, I had to take evasive action to keep from getting run over today.
That is the reality of the judgements made by DARPA this week keeping this event as realistic and as safe as possible, it would be impossible for DARPA to please everyone, as for me I am very happy in the way they handled the teams that were almost good enough.

Ken

Next Level Challenge

spacev — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:13:00 GMT

Posted by: spacev to Urban Challenge Final Event:Next Level Challenge

It was a great event but the online coverage was sub par. The high bandwidth video was somwhat jerky and the sound seemed slow too.

I wish there had been a video stream per bot from the chase vehicle. In such a state of the art event, that should be possible.
The map tracking and status board where also not updated for me during the race.

I wonder what the next level from here is? I would like to see:

- Traffic lights (normal + yellow/red blinking)
- Cars in the parking lot, at least the spot to be parked in has to be surrounded by cars or concrete barriers.
- Parking lot pedestrians (bots)
- Fewer to no GPS coordinates(maybe only start/finish), instead use road names, destinations etc....
- More human traffic

Other Interesting Info

Anna Graham — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:08:00 GMT

Posted by: Anna Graham to Urban Challenge Final Event:Other Interesting Info

Other Final Event stats that would be interesting to see:
- actual distance travelled by each bot (*should* be the same, but maybe some tried alt routes at jams),
- speed on each segment of roadway (full list on every pass).
- maximum speed on each segment.
- overlay of all teams positions in absolute time on the course - animated map.

Results

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:33:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Results

1st - Boss
2nd - Junior
3rd - Odin

Boss was a great in the intersections

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:55:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Boss was a great in the intersections

Boss definitely was the best vehicle at the intersections. After they announced the winners I went back to the footage and didnt really notice how quick and confident it moved through them.

Good Job Team Tartan!!

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:21:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Im getting swarmed, so it may be a little slow.. Hopefully other folks chunks will start relieving the pressure.
Currently there are 10 leechers.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

RetypePassword — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:19:00 GMT

Posted by: RetypePassword to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Hmm... It's not working for me... :-( Never mind. It is.

[Edited on 11/4/2007]

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:17:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Someone is downloading it now, so it must be working ;)

Torrent for the webcast

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 07:16:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Torrent for the webcast

I put a torrent for the webcast out on the internet (Let me know if this is not legal?) I missed a few minutes in the beginning cause the webcast server kept booting me, but recorded solid till the end.

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3873219/DARPA _Urban_Challenge_Final_Event

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 06:58:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Try:
http://thepiratebay.org/user/zonyl

Thanks for the tips. This is the first time I have tried to upload a torrent. KTorrent claims it is seeding, but dont see it on the PB website.. Let me know if it isnt working.

(DARPA if the webcast is illegal to post, let me know and ill gladly take it down)

[Edited on 11/4/2007]

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Comprox — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 06:30:00 GMT

Posted by: Comprox to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

What about other bit torrent sites? thepiratebay or mininova for example?

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

RetypePassword — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 06:29:00 GMT

Posted by: RetypePassword to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Split it and upload it to mediafire. Mediafire allows 100 MB/file, so... because you're probably using linux, I'd do: split --bytes=100m [filename]

Edit: Actually, I'd recommend you split it to 99m, because they might calculate megabytes differently.

[Edited on 11/4/2007]

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

zonyl — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 06:24:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

I tried with them but they block free mail services for account creation. Not exactly going to post this under my real email <just in case>

The file is 471MB, does anyone have any ideas?

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

theinfonaut — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 04:47:00 GMT

Posted by: theinfonaut to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

Nice, also a good idea.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm sure this will all come in handy next year!
(The Urban Challange was fantastic fun to watch yesterday, I'm glad we made it out!)

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Comprox — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 02:17:00 GMT

Posted by: Comprox to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Yes, please let us know when a link goes up. I just checked and could not find anything.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

RetypePassword — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:38:00 GMT

Posted by: RetypePassword to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

When you do get it on isohunt, could you post the link? Thanks.

Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

Adak — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:07:00 GMT

Posted by: Adak to Technology:Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

If you recall from Desert Storm, we had the Revolutionary Guard pinned by our advancing tanks, if they had just kept going. Unfortunately, they stopped for some much needed sleep, and the RG and their supplies, slipped away. Many could not be found again. Schwartzkopf had a fit! :)

If some of those tanks had been robotically controlled, then the RG would have indeed been captured/killed. No sleep needed.

No, I don't believe it will be cheap, and I don't believe it will be commonly available to both sides. You're looking at $300,000 worth
of equipment on those cars. Sure it will come down, but not to the point where every Iraqi insurgent who wants one will be able to
afford it - let alone have the expertise to set it up and program it.

What prevents such catastrophes? Same thing that now prevents suicide bombers driving trucks with bombs in them into target-rich environments. I don't
see a lot of difference between the bot driving, and the suicidal human who puts a rope on the steering wheel and a weight on the gas pedal, after lining it up
right for the target.

Either way, the truck has to be stopped by something besides just sa fire, which would kill the driver.

Ben Franklin

Anna Graham — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 11:55:00 GMT

Posted by: Anna Graham to Urban Challenge Final Event:Ben Franklin

Looks to me like Benny didn't want to violate the traffic law of crossing a solid double-line.
They should have properly marked the road if obeying the law is so paramount.

Untested at the Qualifiers

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 11:01:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Untested at the Qualifiers

I doubt that there will be any jamming in this scenario. It is true that the bots have only seen other sensor-less vehicles, I doubt that the sensors would intefere with each other due to the angles where they are pointing.

It seems that team Dad is a winner already based on the sales of their new lidars!

Untested at the Qualifiers

Anna Graham — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:07:00 GMT

Posted by: Anna Graham to Urban Challenge Final Event:Untested at the Qualifiers

I am most interested in how these bots will fare when they pass eachother on the course.
In prior events and at the UC Qualifiers, the bots were operating on their own.
They were the only bot in the area. None of the stunt cars had active sensors, AFAIK.
Does anyone know if the active sensors will function in the presence of other sensors?
Are any of the teams operating a completely passive solution like Team DAD in 2004?
Ironically, it is the Team DAD folks who have the "noisiest" sensor out now that many teams are using.
Will DARPA include "jamming/confusing" LIDAR signals on the course today?
I think the next Challenge should require silent/passive solutions so that autonomous vehicles in unfriendly environments are not broadcasting their presence.

Results

DaveB — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:58:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Urban Challenge Final Event:Results

Both Wired and TG Daily agree the results won't be known until the trophies are handed out, tomorrow at 10:00 am, PST (that's Pacific STANDARD Time, as we go off daylight saving time at 2:00 am -- which then becomes 1:00 am)

Statistics I'd love to see posted

heflin — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:52:00 GMT

Posted by: heflin to Urban Challenge Final Event:Statistics I'd love to see posted

For *EACH* vehicle : where/which_situation it performed best & worst

Statistics I'd love to see posted

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:48:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Statistics I'd love to see posted

Usually DARPA has the teams post technical papers describing their HW & SW, I know they are available for the previous events. You'll find most of what you're looking for in those.

Results

zonyl — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:47:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Results

Was this announced anywhere? At the end of the webcast they said results on Sunday.

Results

halfchild — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:05:00 GMT

Posted by: halfchild to Urban Challenge Final Event:Results

victor tango wins!!!!!!

Congrats Hokies and Congrats to TORC!!!!!

Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

AKCline — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 09:05:00 GMT

Posted by: AKCline to Technology:Save Lives? What about a robot car with a bomb?

Firstly, I am hoping someone can explain to me how robot
cars will save lives in military situations. I understand the arguments about
reducing traffic fatalities in civilian situations but I cannot understand the
claim regarding military lives.
I am assuming that the technology will be both public and
cheap. In a military situation both sides will have access to it and so I see
no net benefit.
Furthermore, as has been seen in Iraq, significant civilian
casualties can be caused by bombs located in cars with suicidal drivers. With
robot technology a suicidal driver isn’t even required. A robot car laden with
explosives could drive right up next to the Rose Parade or the New Year’s Eve crowd
at Times Square.
Can someone please explain what will prevent such
catastrophes?

Results

parker — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:41:00 GMT

Posted by: parker to Urban Challenge Final Event:Results

Does anyone know when/if results will be posted? I watched the whole event (stopping after the sixth car - alma mater Cornell - crossed the line because I had to go to dinner) but I feel like I have been left hanging. If they said the results, does anyone know them? Thanks a lot!

~Parker

Statistics I'd love to see posted

BigRedAlum96 — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:26:00 GMT

Posted by: BigRedAlum96 to Urban Challenge Final Event:Statistics I'd love to see posted

Unless they are considered confidential for some reason, it would be fun to see some followup postings to summarize statistics (maybe in one table offering easy side-by-side comparisons) about the entrants in the following areas broken down by vehicle and grouped by vehicles that 1) finished 2) made the finals 3) entered the qualtifying event

1) total price of vehicle and all components used (onboard)
2) number of sensors of each various type
3) number of CPUs, RAM, and persistent storage capacity
4) which OS platform? (why did skynet have to stop and "recycle" so many times? are they running windows?)
5) what is their programming "stack"? (how many custom drivers to interface to the sensors/actuators, application server & number of instances if used, database type and number of instances if used, messaging middleware if used, programming language, etc)
6) some classification of their algorithms (how distributed are they, computational distance (modules) between sensing and acting, which modules are using the most compute power, degree of self-learning enabled during the competition, summary of approaches to which data can be ignored or prioritized in what order)
7) which part of their software module does each team feel they would focus on most if given more time to prepare?

Great event, thanks to everybody who participated.
-LW

Aside from collisions, what else knocked teams out of the NQE?

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:18:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to National Qualification Event:Aside from collisions, what else knocked teams out of the NQE?

Good job to all of the teams that tried, and especially to those that made it to the NQE and beyond. For those that did not make it to the finals, what did your bot lose points on at the NQE?

Mythbusters need to hear some kudos if they have a forum

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:03:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Mythbusters need to hear some kudos if they have a forum

Thanks, there is an extra space in the link for some reason, but I can't seem to create an id there anyway, if you have an id there please give them a high five post for a job well done.

Mythbusters need to hear some kudos if they have a forum

zonyl — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:39:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Mythbusters need to hear some kudos if they have a forum

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums /a/cfrm/f/2991937776

Well Done and Inspiring

BigRedAlum96 — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:38:00 GMT

Posted by: BigRedAlum96 to Urban Challenge Final Event:Well Done and Inspiring

OK last comment for now-- I meant US engineering college Computer Science curriculums have been exceedingly boring.

I speak from experience at Cornell in the early 90s when they bored me right out of the program into economics-- I take responsibility for that too and have many fond memories and successes to celebrate anyway, but days like today while I watch these robots wish I would have stuck it out to get a PHD and have more chances to participate in design projects like this instead of building financial applications...

In my case "youth is wasted on the young" -- kids don't sell yourselves short and stick with your dreams no matter how hard those professors try to turn you off with classes that don't seem to have any practical application! There's room for both the students and the curriculums to step up and keep the US economy competitive and stop the offshoring of all engineering work from becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

-LW

Mythbusters need to hear some kudos if they have a forum

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:27:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Mythbusters need to hear some kudos if they have a forum

I enjoyed the commentary so much that I am going to make sure to send the Mythbusters a note on their forum if they have one. Trust me, it's rare to hear technical chat that is even mildly accurate, just view some of the team videos done by TV interviewers. They will say things like "the robot is controlled by the USB drive", that is almost an exact quote. Besides, if Jamie hasn't seen it he can at least figure out how it would be done, so kudos to DARPA for going with the Mythbusters, and kudos to the Mythbusters for being cool.

Well Done and Inspiring

BigRedAlum96 — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:24:00 GMT

Posted by: BigRedAlum96 to Urban Challenge Final Event:Well Done and Inspiring

- I'm excited to see all the multicore solutions (40, 30, 9 mac-mini's,
etc) being demonstrated. I feel the current generation of programmers
(including myself) in the business world right now are not prepared
well enough to leverage the coming power of dozens or thousands of
simulatenous threads distributed across emerging compute grids. I hope that this race will drive multicore
programming into the mainstream faster and help increase the skillset of programmers everywhere.

- I look forward to Numenta's furthering of their HTM capabilities and how their predictive memory model will be applied to influence future iterations of competitions like this.

- I'm very impressed by the teams and the finishers, I can imagine they are all salivating for more computing power to allow exponential levels of sophistication in their next entries. I can't tell you how excited I am to see history in the making and the development of ever more capable machines.

- Cheers to all the teams, to DARPA for helping inspire the US to grow/maintain its technology expertise to keep our economy competitive, and especially to my alma mater's entry "Skynet" for being among the finishers. (Go Big Red!)

Great event for the teams, current and future innovators, the US, the world!
Celebrate the day
-LW

Well Done and Inspiring

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:20:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Well Done and Inspiring

It's a hot topic in schools everywhere, even in the community college where I teach there is interest in providing some robotics orientation. Budgets are not huge but there will be some exposure at least. Every teacher in every programming and engineering class should be making sure their students are exposed to these competitions.

Well Done and Inspiring

BigRedAlum96 — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:14:00 GMT

Posted by: BigRedAlum96 to Urban Challenge Final Event:Well Done and Inspiring

I'm sitting in Seattle this morning and have been glued to the live web feed for over 6 hours with barely a break...

Main areas I'm pondering:
- How long until the next round and ever more realistic environment? (victorville was less than suburban, let alone urban. Where are the buses, streetcars, parked cars along the roadway, pedestrians crossing streets, bicycles in traffic lanes, etc?)
- I can only hope that all the lazy high school or younger kids out there in the USA get off the couch and video games and break out their mathbooks! Software design is fun and you won't get a shot to play with these kinds of robotic "toys" unless you pay attention, work hard in school, and go find a good engineering program for college. You are not entitled to the same quality of life your parents had... you have to go earn it yourself and be competitive in a global economy!
- I hope that US engineering colleges are waking up to the fact that your curriculums have been exceedingly boring for too many years and contribute to the shortage of enrollments and grads. Its going to be the real world applications and practical implementations of the theory like this challenge that we need to raise interest and increase enrollments again.

<more to come next post I'm cut off on character limits>

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:13:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

head back towards Nevada, tourist area rates are always less.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Pascal — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:13:00 GMT

Posted by: Pascal to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Zonyl,

Thanks in advance!

changing the rules mid event?

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:11:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

Imagine if our troops lives were at stake, should they settle for robots that almost work but end up running over the troops? This was not a game of horseshoes, so teams that were almost good enough were not in the finals.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

zonyl — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:04:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

LeenSTL — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:01:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Having the Mythbusters team was a great idea, they were often correct on technical concepts. Few in the mainsteam media could even understand the concepts much less explain them.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Pascal — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:42:00 GMT

Posted by: Pascal to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Zonyl,
unfortunately, I was unable to see the webcast with my computer (a problem of plug-in with my Firefox browser under Linux).
I'm so sad not to see any images from the event...

Could it be possible for me to download the video you've recorded?

Thanks.

Pascal

Congrats!

Kyle — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:10:00 GMT

Posted by: Kyle to Urban Challenge Final Event:Congrats!

>Inspires me to try and compete at the next event.

These teams are doing amazing things. It would be awesome to be working on this.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

zonyl — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:54:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

It was available on the web. I was able to watch live on Linux and record the event as well. Very entertaining with the Mythbusters as hosts.

Thanks DARPA for providing the coverage on the web!

Congrats!

zonyl — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:52:00 GMT

Posted by: zonyl to Urban Challenge Final Event:Congrats!

Yes, well done all!! Very entertaining day watching the event. Inspires me to try and compete at the next event.

Congrats!

Gulag — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:45:00 GMT

Posted by: Gulag to Urban Challenge Final Event:Congrats!

Congratulations to all the teams completing the course. No matter the winner, the results speak for themselves.

Status Board Issue?

DaveB — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 04:32:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

Just read Johnathon's third entry, and by golly that link can download High -Bandwidth video.

Also, I see the Board has been updated to show 5 vehicles finishing Mission 2

Status Board Issue?

DaveB — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 04:22:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

Then again, it's now 1:10pm, PDT, and the board still shows only 3 vehicles having finished Mission 2, whereas all 6 remaining vehicles finished by about 1:00 pm. Maybe the secretary who puts n the check marks went on coffee break.

Still no bots shown oh the Course Map

Status Board Issue?

DaveB — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 04:00:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

OK. They've finally gotten some data posted on the Status Board, at abouit 3:50 EDT, or 12:50 pm, PDT

Status Board Issue?

Jonathan Anderson — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:54:00 GMT

Posted by: Jonathan Anderson to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

Apparently there is a confusion between the grandchallenge and darpa.mil sites.

If you go to http://www.grandchallenge.org/darpauc07/w atchtherace/

Things work better...

JA

Status Board Issue?

Jonathan Anderson — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:51:00 GMT

Posted by: Jonathan Anderson to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

In case anyone's paying attention, note that the audio level on the low-bandwidth live video is very low.

JA

Status Board Issue?

Jonathan Anderson — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:20:00 GMT

Posted by: Jonathan Anderson to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

DaveB:

Verify exact same experience, WinXP and Mac OS X (10.4). Low-bandwidth video feed works fine via Flip4Mac WMV plugin.

JA

Status Board Issue?

DaveB — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 02:34:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

I get an empty Status Board, a Tracking Map with no vehicles, and nothing on High-Bandwidth Video.

Fortunately, the Low-Bandwidth Video works, except that it took me about an hour to give up on high bandwidth.

I'm trying with two computers running the latest XP updates, and one running Wn 98.

If anyone is getting any of these functions, please let us know. In the last challenge, the status board started working about a quarter way through the event. It's too late for that, but maybe they'll get it going by half way through this one.

Status Board Issue?

JeffS — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 02:02:00 GMT

Posted by: JeffS to Miscellaneous:Status Board Issue?

Anyone experiencing difficulties with status board updates? I've installed the latest Flash plugins, but I still get an empty board. Any suggestions? Thanks! : )

G G G Gunit!!!

DarpaGhad — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:13:00 GMT

Posted by: DarpaGhad to Vendor/Suppliers:G G G Gunit!!!

DICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHDICK MUNCHV

Darpa

DarpaGhad — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:12:00 GMT

Posted by: DarpaGhad to Vendor/Suppliers:Darpa

i are darpa going chalgange, me need see fun cool eksiting evnt cuzx i luvs the eksitement of adrenilenenenenen
me fvrite atomoble are stanly

changing the rules mid event?

DaveB — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 10:29:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

H. Joe, I agree they seem to change the rules more than necessary, but they DO have that right, and from what we've seen on YouTube and TGDaily a lot of vehicles needed to be eliminated.

What's worse is that REAL speed limits are no more clear than those on most highways. In the last Challenge, it was apparent that some vehicles were getting away with going faster than the mission data file allowed. In fact, if CMU had allowed their backup vehicle to go faster, they might have won (their primary entry had problems that prevented it from attaining its target speed).

Maybe DARPA has already said in one of the meetings, that ANY speeds in excesss of the limit will be cause for elimination, but if not, they SHOULD, and should enforce it. If all entries behave, and observe the speed limits, then the two million dollars may be won by the entry with the fastest acceleration and stopping. Hmmmmm

In my opinion, the worst rule change was when they announced, for the first Grand Challenge, that the field would be pared down to 20 cars before the final test. Up to that point, it was supposed to be a real "race", open to all comers, so that was the first introduction of their subjective evaluation being used to eliminate teams. Since then, it's always been clear that their opinions would be used to decide who gets to race.

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

theinfonaut — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:56:00 GMT

Posted by: theinfonaut to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

Oh, good idea! Flying to Vegas would be cheaper then LAX too. It looks like we're going to drive down through the night and save ourselves from a night at a hotel (time to go buy a case of redbull).

Perhaps next year we'll plan a bit more. ;)

Now the next fun challange will be finding a place to crashwith 4 people for Saturday night. Any more smart ideas?

changing the rules mid event?

Gulag — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:07:00 GMT

Posted by: Gulag to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

I am not convinced that any rule changes occurred during the selection process. At first glance, it did appear to be somewhat arbitrary. The early teams that were eliminated consistently failed to demonstrate capabilities or showed unsafe behavior. Obviously, DARPA didn't want to put teams into the race that would potentially cause a more capable team to be eliminated due to a collision. Unfortunately, the scoring process was not and will probably never be published so it appears biased. Everyone was given an even slate of qualifying runs at the beginning.

As for the final competitor count, DARPA has always stated that they would field up to 20 teams. Selecting fewer is inline with everything that has been stated throughout the program.

DARPA did setup courses that violated many of the stated rules. The start chutes on Area B were significantly less than the 1 meter clearance on all sides of the vehicle based on the stated maximum vehicle width. Likewise, the setup on Area A was a joke initially with a concrete barrier on a 12 ft lane. Given a mandatory clearance of 1 meter on both sides of a vehicle, the 12 ft lane wasn't really plausible for vehicles that were near the maximum vehicle width.

Obviously, they were looking for human behavior and not rule rollowing.

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

LeenSTL — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:15:00 GMT

Posted by: LeenSTL to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

Go in the night before and drive out from Vegas, maybe you'd get a tourist rate on the flight.

changing the rules mid event?

honest joe — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 03:33:00 GMT

Posted by: honest joe to Rules:changing the rules mid event?

While many teams attended the event it seems that the darpa directors were haphazard and random in the process of selection. Once again dod proves that they cant act fairly.

This is going to have a nock on effect, next time teams will not enter as the randomization of results is going to make the effort pointless.

Why o why at the last minute change finalists from 20 to 12?

Did they want to get a round of golf in before going back to work?

Sorry but I think there is some stupidity here. When you publish rules and guidelines even the judges have to follow them.

sour grapes nope i am not in any team.

my wife is but then she gets to come home early so i win anyway two weeks without her is long enough

HELP Please Post Links to Videos

DaveB — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 04:47:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Media:HELP Please Post Links to Videos

DARPA has now posted info on satellite feeds, and planned webcast, at the top of the home page:
http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge/index .asp

I haven't yet gotton my old dish going, so if any of you smart guys, such as Carnigie Mellon U, could webcast what's going out now, on the NQE, a lot of us would appreciate it (assuming it's on-going, rather than a short event).

Also note that my copy of IE (not the latest version), can view the videos at tgdaily.com You just have to click on the right-arrow "Play" button that comes up in the middle of the screen.

HELP Please Post Links to Videos

DaveB — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:41:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Media:HELP Please Post Links to Videos

Another YouTube search, which finds a few videos, not caught by the above link:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=+%2 2urban+challenge%22&so=1&num=30

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

DaveB — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:13:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

Yeah. The sad part is that it's being held at the Southern California International Airport (or Southern California Logistics Airport), but no airlines seem to fly there.

You could get a bit closer by flying to Ontario or Riverside, but consider just renting a car at LAX.

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

theinfonaut — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:28:00 GMT

Posted by: theinfonaut to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

Partially answering my own question (and for the benefit of anyone else who might want to know):
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en &geocode=&time=&date=&tty pe=&saddr=lax&daddr=vcv&sll=3 6.156895,-119.88529&sspn=3.853808,8.0 74951&ie=UTF8&z=10&om=1

It's a hundred miles or so between LAX and the event grounds. Yowser, that's no taxi ride.

How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

theinfonaut — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:54:00 GMT

Posted by: theinfonaut to Miscellaneous:How can I get from LAX to the Urban Challange event on Saturday?

I'm thinking of flying into LA on Saturday morning, but I've never been to LAX or LA before, and I'm not clear on how far the event is from the airport. Does anyone know if it will be very difficult, if there are any shuttles, or anyone else flying in who might have a ride?
Thanks!

HELP Please Post Links to Videos

not5150 — Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:58:00 GMT

Posted by: not5150 to Media:HELP Please Post Links to Videos

We (tgdaily.com) have posted up at least 15 videos so far. Mostly crashes unfortunately :)

Use Firefox to view the pages as our webmaster seems to be asleep at the switch - website change has apparently made all the videos appear blank in IE.

Humphrey Cheung
Senior Editor TGDaily.com

HELP Please Post Links to Videos

DaveB — Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:06:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Media:HELP Please Post Links to Videos

Aha! I see there are now a couple E-stop and preliminary runs on YouTube, found using the link on Team Gator Nation's "The Players" page:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=dar pa%2Bchallenge&num=10&so=1&st art=0

HELP Please Post Links to Videos

DaveB — Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:43:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Media:HELP Please Post Links to Videos

Help! Since DARPA says it won't post live streaming video until the final event, and hasn't yet posted any video clips, we fans need you teams and media to provide some clips, and post links to them here.

Even E-stop tests or other boring clips of the vehicles moving (or stopping) will help us decide who to root for.

Thanks a million for anything you might post.

Commercialization

Tyler Folsom — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:06:00 GMT

Posted by: Tyler Folsom to Teaming:Commercialization

A group of people from four Grand Challenge teams has formed a company to commercialize autonomous vehicle technology. We are adressing the civilian non-automotive market. Our vision statement is on www.cogneta.com. We are looking to team with others who can supply software and hardware solutions. I will be in Victorville Oct 25 - 28. My cell phone is 206-679-1196.

Televison?

ptrep — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 03:55:00 GMT

Posted by: ptrep to Media:Televison?

Discovery Science Channel has followed 10 teams since the site visits. They will be broadcasting 6 episodes in February realted to the DARPA Urban Challenge.

Televison?

creamysbrianna — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:19:00 GMT

Posted by: creamysbrianna to Media:Televison?

Will there be any Television productions being made of the race for brodcast as a documentary or 1-hour television show to be brodcast in the United States?

I would love to see such a documentary or television show since I am unable to attend the race in person.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

DaveB — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:26:00 GMT

Posted by: DaveB to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Not likely, Dan, as neither of the first two challenges were even broadcast live in the US.

During the first challenge, one of the colleges (Carnigie Mellon, I think) broadcast live on the internet, which worked out quite well.

During the second challenge, DARPA hired a company to provide live pictures and position data, which worked out very poorly.

In neither case did we learn what would be available untill the last minute (couple of days, actually).

The normal media seem to prefer editing a show for later broadcasting, possibly because they have no experience with this particular event, and each Challenge is different than the last.

Keep your fingers crossed in hope that SOMEone will do a webcast of this Challenge, and keep your eye on this forum, probably in the media or other thread since we hope to see the NQE, as well as the Final Event.

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

dankrusi — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 08:51:00 GMT

Posted by: dankrusi to Urban Challenge Final Event:Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Will the Finaly Event be available for viewing on Live TV in Europe?

Thanks,

Dan Krüsi

Looking for a Team - Will work Remotely

Grasshopper — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:31:00 GMT

Posted by: Grasshopper to Teaming:Looking for a Team - Will work Remotely

Hey, sorry I haven't gotten back to anyone. Today was the first day I received an email to say anyone posted on here. Maybe the others went to spam or something. So, I'm still alive and willing to help out. Anyone still needing help shoot me an email at garmin_grasshopper@yahoo.com and let me know what you need, design plan, and milestone dates. Thanks.
-G-

finding VW parts

Muzio77 — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 05:53:00 GMT

Posted by: Muzio77 to Miscellaneous:finding VW parts

Have put a lot of time and money into restoring my 1967 Bug, and it hasn’t always been easy finding VW parts and accessories. Recently I was looking for a muffler and found a great deal at http://www.gex.com. Their prices are great and the service was excellent. I’ll definitely order from them again.

Looking for a Team - Will work Remotely

pgrayson@aimagic.org — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:23:00 GMT

Posted by: pgrayson@aimagic.org to Teaming:Looking for a Team - Will work Remotely

SGT Harland,

Interesting work you are doing.

I did not get to spend much time in Japan the several times I passed through there on my way to and from the ships I worked on. Marine Engineer (water trans.) 197.130-010 http://www.occupationalinfo.org/19/197130 010.html

Yes, my team can always use a hand. We have some interesting toys to play with that have been provided to us by our sponsors. We are working on automating an M-215 US Army supply truck to demonstate how it can be done.

Contact me directly for details.

GO ROBOTS !

Paul F. Grayson - Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL MAGIC, LLC
Racing to build technology that saves soldier's lives.
390 4-Mile Rd. S.
Traverse City, MI 49686-8411
(231) 946-0187, (231) 883-4463 Cell
pgrayson@aimagic.org
http://aimagic.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/robotc luboftraversecitymi/
http://www.controleng.com/index.asp?layou t=blog&blog_id=1180000318

Technical Writer writing about your team.

pgrayson@aimagic.org — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:08:00 GMT

Posted by: pgrayson@aimagic.org to Media:Technical Writer writing about your team.

SGT Harland,

I am intertested in all things technical. Always looking for things that I can use.

GO ROBOTS !

Paul F. Grayson - Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL MAGIC, LLC
Racing to build technology that saves soldier's lives.
390 4-Mile Rd. S.
Traverse City, MI 49686-8411
(231) 946-0187, (231) 883-4463 Cell
pgrayson@aimagic.org
http://aimagic.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/robotc luboftraversecitymi/
http://www.controleng.com/index.asp?layou t=blog&blog_id=1180000318

Technical Writer writing about your team.

pgrayson@aimagic.org — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:05:00 GMT

Posted by: pgrayson@aimagic.org to Media:Technical Writer writing about your team.

Richard,

I am paid $0.04 to $0.50 per published word depending on the prestige and circulation of the publication I am writing for.
I was unable to reach you directly off-line.

GO ROBOTS !

Paul F. Grayson - Chief Engineer
AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL MAGIC, LLC
Racing to build technology that saves soldier's lives.
390 4-Mile Rd. S.
Traverse City, MI 49686-8411
(231) 946-0187, (231) 883-4463 Cell
pgrayson@aimagic.org
http://aimagic.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/robotc luboftraversecitymi/
http://www.controleng.com/index.asp?layou t=blog&blog_id=1180000318